Rape. (Sexual Assault Awareness month)
Apr. 1st, 2009 05:35 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
lenora_roseEDITED to add the link I previously had held.
This is an issue I've kept having thoughts about.
First, some smarter people than me on the topic:
Jim C. Hines:
Thoughts on men and Rape
Sleeping Beauties (Of all warnings, contains spoilers for some of his books. Not shocking ones if you know the source materials, but yes.)
Arielstarshadow:
Sexual Assault Awareness Month
This is what i know. Mom, you may not want to look:
Real World:
- First, I have not been raped. I have been sexually assaulted. The rest is not your business.
- I don't think anyone should be raped. Or sexually assaulted, by the definition that includes all unwanted touch with obvious sexual connotation.
- Virtually every male I know would say he hates the idea of any friend/girlfriend/daughter/sister/etc of his getting raped. (Most assume, yes, that the survivor would be female or gay. For now, I'll set this observation aside, though.)
- Most of them say things to the effect of what sort of nasty violence they would do to any man who did that to someone they knew. (Colin, thankfully, does not.)
- Most of them don't realise that what most survivors would want is to decide for themselves if they want revenge or something else, and that doing it for them - it's usually implied that said man would go out and do so before she can give an opinion, or even, in some cases, explicitly behind her back - is taking away another power they have right after they've been rendered powerless.
- A few of them have ideas about what sexual assault constitute that kind of bother me.
- Others have ideas what "Feminists" think sexual assault is that while likely true of extremists, are not of many people who call themselves feminists. And fail to recognize that mocking the extremist causes problems for the majority, by undermining their valid complaints. (Thus also my defining the term above.)
- At least one friend expresses contempt, and I use the word precisely, for women who can't assert themselves. Not that he would wish harm on such a woman. This is dangerous territory, because while I want to believe he's on the good side of the line, it can come close to the "For god's sake woman, cover up" bit from a lot of "Rescued from rape scenarios".
- Not every survivor has the sort of trauma expected, because some people are tougher. This doesn't make the act less real or evil.
- I know at least one person, female in this case, who continually cites cases of friends calling things rape that aren't, and about how horrible false accusations are. Some of her examples are clear-cut if she has all the facts. Some are not.
- There is, believe it or not, a grey area. This frightens or offends people, because the clear-cut cases are so devastating. And sometimes even the grey ones create new trauma or triggers.
- Date rape and friend rape are in many ways more devastating than stranger rape, yet date rape is harder to prevent. because situations can get more complicated when you know the person, especially when you've had sex with them before.
- I have submissive tendencies. And sometimes I like a struggle, and want to have my limit pushed. I am aware this can confuse the issue, but I am also aware where the limit is. And how much involves trust.
- Colin is more uncomfortable with this than I am. This can occasionally frustrate me, especially in the moment, but you know what? I'd rather be occasionally frustrated sexually by only getting part of what I feel like, and know I can trust him, than any alternative.
- I am not an object, even when I want to be pushed, or submit. This is something everyone I've dated for a significant time seemed to recognize, but it's something I've seen enough to feel the need to state.
- There's also a whole meme about real world sex where people seem to believe that asking for consent is a turn-off. And for the "Like a struggle" situations above, it can be - but those situations are, let's face it, a minuscule fraction of the real sex out there. And usually aren't first time. There are plenty of ways to make asking her if she wants something, or getting her to admit she wants it, erotic.
Fictional World:
- It bugs me a lot that the two cases of male-male rape I've included in my fiction happen to gay characters. Even though both are more closely related to date rape. Because real stranger rape, and even some versions of "Date-rape" happen to people whose own sexual orientation doesn't match the aggressor. Because the point is the aggressor doesn't care. And I don't want to perpetuate the idea that it only happens to people who might "want it".
- I sometimes read rape fantasies when I'm reading erotica. There are three kinds. Actual rape stories, where the victim (And in these stories, it is a victim) never enjoys a bit of it, go beyond turn-off and into the territory of "Who the F*** likes this?" The second and third kinds, though, I've enjoyed enough to seek out. The second are Reluc stories, as they've been titled in some places. These are the classic bodice ripper style; where for whatever reason, the female/bottom is forced, but likes it. These often turn me on, even though they look a LOT like real date rape scenarios, which don't. Granted, from the reader's point of view, the not-victim is usually the point-of-view, and thus usually it's clear that they're aroused beforehand, but don't, for whatever reason, want to admit it or succumb, which makes it clear the reluc isn't rape, even though it has all the flags. Still, I suspect these narratives have contributed to the acceptance of date rape or reluctance to recongize its nastiness. This combination bugs me, but there's not an easy solution: I can't tell my body not to get turned on. The third is the fantasy scenario, where even in the fiction, the "rape" (and it's usually portrayed as stranger rape) is role-playing, and the reader knows it. These also work for me, because of the insulative layer; everyone know it isn't real, so it can be fun. This is also problematic, but the insulative layer is significant.
- Wait, there's a fourth. The hurt/comfort scenario; where the female in the narrative is threatened with rape, and rescued "just in time", or even after the fact. Where the rape exists only to give the hero a reason to cuddle and be gentle and prove his good manly credentials. These ANNOY me, because they trivialize the damage.
This is an issue I've kept having thoughts about.
First, some smarter people than me on the topic:
Jim C. Hines:
Thoughts on men and Rape
Sleeping Beauties (Of all warnings, contains spoilers for some of his books. Not shocking ones if you know the source materials, but yes.)
Arielstarshadow:
Sexual Assault Awareness Month
This is what i know. Mom, you may not want to look:
Real World:
- First, I have not been raped. I have been sexually assaulted. The rest is not your business.
- I don't think anyone should be raped. Or sexually assaulted, by the definition that includes all unwanted touch with obvious sexual connotation.
- Virtually every male I know would say he hates the idea of any friend/girlfriend/daughter/sister/etc of his getting raped. (Most assume, yes, that the survivor would be female or gay. For now, I'll set this observation aside, though.)
- Most of them say things to the effect of what sort of nasty violence they would do to any man who did that to someone they knew. (Colin, thankfully, does not.)
- Most of them don't realise that what most survivors would want is to decide for themselves if they want revenge or something else, and that doing it for them - it's usually implied that said man would go out and do so before she can give an opinion, or even, in some cases, explicitly behind her back - is taking away another power they have right after they've been rendered powerless.
- A few of them have ideas about what sexual assault constitute that kind of bother me.
- Others have ideas what "Feminists" think sexual assault is that while likely true of extremists, are not of many people who call themselves feminists. And fail to recognize that mocking the extremist causes problems for the majority, by undermining their valid complaints. (Thus also my defining the term above.)
- At least one friend expresses contempt, and I use the word precisely, for women who can't assert themselves. Not that he would wish harm on such a woman. This is dangerous territory, because while I want to believe he's on the good side of the line, it can come close to the "For god's sake woman, cover up" bit from a lot of "Rescued from rape scenarios".
- Not every survivor has the sort of trauma expected, because some people are tougher. This doesn't make the act less real or evil.
- I know at least one person, female in this case, who continually cites cases of friends calling things rape that aren't, and about how horrible false accusations are. Some of her examples are clear-cut if she has all the facts. Some are not.
- There is, believe it or not, a grey area. This frightens or offends people, because the clear-cut cases are so devastating. And sometimes even the grey ones create new trauma or triggers.
- Date rape and friend rape are in many ways more devastating than stranger rape, yet date rape is harder to prevent. because situations can get more complicated when you know the person, especially when you've had sex with them before.
- I have submissive tendencies. And sometimes I like a struggle, and want to have my limit pushed. I am aware this can confuse the issue, but I am also aware where the limit is. And how much involves trust.
- Colin is more uncomfortable with this than I am. This can occasionally frustrate me, especially in the moment, but you know what? I'd rather be occasionally frustrated sexually by only getting part of what I feel like, and know I can trust him, than any alternative.
- I am not an object, even when I want to be pushed, or submit. This is something everyone I've dated for a significant time seemed to recognize, but it's something I've seen enough to feel the need to state.
- There's also a whole meme about real world sex where people seem to believe that asking for consent is a turn-off. And for the "Like a struggle" situations above, it can be - but those situations are, let's face it, a minuscule fraction of the real sex out there. And usually aren't first time. There are plenty of ways to make asking her if she wants something, or getting her to admit she wants it, erotic.
Fictional World:
- It bugs me a lot that the two cases of male-male rape I've included in my fiction happen to gay characters. Even though both are more closely related to date rape. Because real stranger rape, and even some versions of "Date-rape" happen to people whose own sexual orientation doesn't match the aggressor. Because the point is the aggressor doesn't care. And I don't want to perpetuate the idea that it only happens to people who might "want it".
- I sometimes read rape fantasies when I'm reading erotica. There are three kinds. Actual rape stories, where the victim (And in these stories, it is a victim) never enjoys a bit of it, go beyond turn-off and into the territory of "Who the F*** likes this?" The second and third kinds, though, I've enjoyed enough to seek out. The second are Reluc stories, as they've been titled in some places. These are the classic bodice ripper style; where for whatever reason, the female/bottom is forced, but likes it. These often turn me on, even though they look a LOT like real date rape scenarios, which don't. Granted, from the reader's point of view, the not-victim is usually the point-of-view, and thus usually it's clear that they're aroused beforehand, but don't, for whatever reason, want to admit it or succumb, which makes it clear the reluc isn't rape, even though it has all the flags. Still, I suspect these narratives have contributed to the acceptance of date rape or reluctance to recongize its nastiness. This combination bugs me, but there's not an easy solution: I can't tell my body not to get turned on. The third is the fantasy scenario, where even in the fiction, the "rape" (and it's usually portrayed as stranger rape) is role-playing, and the reader knows it. These also work for me, because of the insulative layer; everyone know it isn't real, so it can be fun. This is also problematic, but the insulative layer is significant.
- Wait, there's a fourth. The hurt/comfort scenario; where the female in the narrative is threatened with rape, and rescued "just in time", or even after the fact. Where the rape exists only to give the hero a reason to cuddle and be gentle and prove his good manly credentials. These ANNOY me, because they trivialize the damage.
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no subject
Date: 2009-04-02 12:48 pm (UTC)I didn't want to delve into the rape fantasies that some have when I made my post. I think what I wish is that we would find another term for it, because truthfully, it's not a rape fantasy. It's just not. It's a being-dominated fantasy. And as we both know, the two - rape versus being dominated - while they may appear the same, are very, very different.
no subject
Date: 2009-04-03 04:27 am (UTC)But because the actual moves are identical to many date rapes, if a guy gets that narrative in his head, he can try to excuse his behaviour. People make stories out of their experiences, and often forget or "fix" details to fit the narrative they're expecting. The results of which, in this case? horrifying.
(It also gets worse with movies, where we get the scene as-it-was-in-the-book, but without that internal perspective.)